The New Murrey and Blue blog

Queen Joan? Oh, no she wasn’t….!

, , , , , , , ,

 

The illustration above is from Dan Jones’s book Summer of Blood: the Peasants’ Revolt of 1381. Part of the caption is “Queen Joan, Richard II’s mother, pleading with the rebels as the Savoy burned”. Elsewhere in the same book, Joan is referred to as the queen mother.

According to Merriam Webster, the first known use of ‘queen mother’ is 1560, and it is defined as “a queen dowager who is mother of the reigning sovereign”. Joan, of course, was never a queen. She was married to Edward, Prince of Wales (the Black Prince) who died before he ascended the throne. So Joan was only Princess of Wales. This applied even when her son became Richard II. Being the mother of the king didn’t make her a queen (ask Margaret Beaufort!) so Dan Jones’s caption is incorrect, and should read “Joan, Princess of Wales, Richard II’s mother, pleading with the rebels as the Savoy burned”.

Subscribe to my newsletter

  1. drake richards Avatar
    drake richards

    Dan Jones is an absolute chump.His research notes? Wikipedia

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply
  2. mry4441 Avatar
    mry4441

    Oh dear this really proves my point. He just doesn’t do any research.

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply
  3. hoodedman1 Avatar
    hoodedman1

    Another of his books called the rebel William Fitz Osbert William FitzOsbern. Names are similar, but they are 2 very different, very distinct people.

    Like

    Reply
  4. Was the Black Prince a control freak where his wife was concerned? | murreyandblue

    […] I think it’s safe to say that Edward of Woodstock was just such a man. He decided everything, as Joan of Kent discovered when she became his Princess of […]

    Like

    Reply
  5. A royal Christmas invitation for Matthew Paris of St Albans…. | murreyandblue

    […] know about the “Christ” aspect for guests, but it was researching a 1376 visit to the abbey by Princess Joan of Kent and a number of her close relatives and followers that brought me to look more closely into the […]

    Like

    Reply
  6. The story of the Crutched Friars in London…. | murreyandblue

    […] be out dining in the city, at Ypres Inn in the oddly named Wringwren Lane, He escaped by fleeing to Joan of Kent, Princess of Wales, at […]

    Like

    Reply
  7. Was the 3rd Duke of York like his youngest son in appearance….? | murreyandblue

    […] mother was the almost legendary Joan of Kent, who beome know as the Fair Maid of Kent. So, was she fair as in beautiful? Or fair as in blonde? […]

    Like

    Reply
  8. More Lancastrian propaganda – about an earlier Richard and Henry…. – murreyandblue

    […] Richard sent them back to the Tower because their/his mother, Joan of Kent was there and he wanted her guarded by those who loved her most? Perhaps there was something else […]

    Like

    Reply
  9. A pinch of salt reflected in A Distant Mirror…. – murreyandblue

    […] particular error is that Joan of Kent, Princess of Wales, Countess of Kent, was “Countess of Holland”. She wasn’t any […]

    Like

    Reply
  10. Spreading propaganda works both ways, as John of Gaunt discovered…. – murreyandblue

    […] persistent rumour throughout Richard II’s reign was that his mother, Joan of Kent (known to us as the Fair Maid of Kent), wasn’t legally married to his father, Edward of […]

    Like

    Reply
  11. The Decline of Villeinage – murreyandblue

    […] briefly to the Peasants’ Revolt – it should be noted that, whatever else they were, the men of Kent/Kentish men were not serfs. That method of land tenure had never applied in their […]

    Like

    Reply
  12. A medieval mystery in Stamford…. – murreyandblue

    […] was a great religious centre in medieval times, and Joan of Kent, the first Princess of Wales, was buried there, with her first husband, Thomas Holand, Earl of […]

    Like

    Reply
  13. The Wardrobe, the King’s Wardrobes….er, no The Queen’s Wardrobe….? – murreyandblue

    […] sheltering inside were dragged out and executed, another person of note who was there was widowed Joan of Kent, Princess of Wales, mother of 14-year-old King Richard II. Well, the future Henry IV was hiding […]

    Like

    Reply
  14. The Touchet/Audley Family in the Fifteenth Century. – murreyandblue

    […] York. Through her mother, Alianore descended from King Edward III, and through her father, from the ‘Fair Maid of Kent’ and King Edward I. She also happened to be the half-sister of the Countess of Warwick, and for that […]

    Like

    Reply
  15. Hard time to be a woman? – murreyandblue

    […] about Joan Beaufort? Again, her husband Ralph Neville, Earl of Westmorland, left her a huge jointure. She was able to […]

    Like

    Reply
  16. Who led the tournament knights on golden chains….? – murreyandblue

    […] himself led by his queen? Was Edward of Woodstock, the “Black Prince” led by his wife, Joan of Kent? Was John of Gaunt led by his second wife, Costanza of Castile? And so […]

    Like

    Reply
  17. A BOOK ON PLANTAGENET QUEENS-BUT WHERE IS ANNE? – murreyandblue

    […] not a ‘Plantagenet Queen’ —Elizabeth of York, the wife of Henry Tudor. Weirdly, Joan of Kent , mother of Richard II was included, even though she was never a queen, and the same goes for […]

    Like

    Reply
  18. The most beautiful woman in medieval England….? – murreyandblue

    […] title of this article refers to Joan, Princess of Wales, mother of Richard II. She became known as the “Fair Maid of Kent”, a sobriquet acquired […]

    Like

    Reply
  19. The early Hollands – or Holands – murreyandblue

    […] courage and resourcefulness. However, he is mainly remembered now for his relationship with Joan of Kent, the King’s […]

    Like

    Reply
  20. The Black Prince had a sense of humour…. – murreyandblue

    […] Westminster. The prince loved Kennington, and when he made his undoubtedly shocking marriage to Joan of Kent, a lady of dubious reputation (undeserved, I may add), it was to Kennington that he often […]

    Like

    Reply
  21. A 14th-century castle and moat unearthed beneath a French hotel…. – murreyandblue

    […] who was one of Edward III’s trusted captains and scandalous husband of the equally scandalous Joan of Kent (who, when Thomas died, would become the wife of the Black Prince and mother of RII), was sent back […]

    Like

    Reply
  22. “Time-honour’d Lancaster” was given to pressing on at the expense of his men…. – murreyandblue

    […] Sir John Holand. Sir John was Richard II’s half-brother. They both shared the same mother, Joan of Kent, who had died the previous […]

    Like

    Reply
  23. The beginnings of the House of York…. – murreyandblue

    […] The new love was Isabel Holand, sister of Thomas Holand, 1st Earl of Kent. Yes, the one who married Joan of Kent and caused the scandal that dragged on to affect Joan’s second marriage to the Black […]

    Like

    Reply
  24. Pink or lilac robes today, Your Majesty….? – murreyandblue

    […] from Duke of Surrey), who paid the same grim price as John. The two Holands were the offspring of Joan of Kent‘s first marriage, and she was Richard II’s mother. Richard’s father, as we all […]

    Like

    Reply
  25. Whose wheatear badge was found in the Thames….? – murreyandblue

    […] began when one Thomas Holand seduced and married the (very young) royal lady known to posterity as Joan, the Fair Maid of Kent. She became Countess of Kent in her own right, and Thomas became the Earl. […]

    Like

    Reply
  26. Who wrote the inscription on the tomb of Richard II….? – murreyandblue

    […] without doing anything. How could he do as the Church pressured when his close friends, his mother Joan of Kent, his uncle John of Gaunt, and even his beloved Queen Anne were open to Lollard views? Anne had […]

    Like

    Reply

Leave a reply to The Touchet/Audley Family in the Fifteenth Century. – murreyandblue Cancel reply