Tudors

Well, well, this author appears to have expunged Lionel of Clarence and his line from the annals of history, in order to make the Lancastrian claim to the throne senior to that of York. When, thanks to Lionel, it ended up the other way around. Lionel was the 2nd son of Edward III, Lancaster the 3rd, and York the 4th. Put 2nd and 4th together, and you have something rather more superior than the 3rd. Yes? Yes.

 


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  1. The Tydder hereditary claim to the throne is laughable. They simply didn’t have one. Or at least, there were literally dozens in front of them. If you accept Henry IV’s ban as valid, they had no claim at all.

    As for “conquest”… OMG, I have grown so tired of explaining this. Henry IV wanted to claim by conquest, but it was not allowed by Parliament because it would have had an impact on every single property owner in the land. In other words, the entire ruling class. So Henry IV’s accession was formally by inheritance (which was carefully kept opaque) and this was later buttressed by a succession statute. Two, actually. In effect, Henry was legally put on the throne by Parliament and was our first statutory sovereign.

    Similarly, although Henry Tydder may have objectively have won the throne by conquest, legally (which is what counts) he ruled on the basis of a statute that declared him king. This statute did not set out an hereditary claim, it merely asserted his kingship. This demonstrates that Tydder’s claim was uniquely feeble, because if it hadn’t been the statute would have been sure to set out his claim to bolster his position. Just as Richard III’s own statute did!

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  2. What’s with people who have blogs but don’t post their names? Like, I’m supposed to believe it’s a little Keebler Elf posting not a real, flesh and blood person? Color me confused.

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  3. What a load of utter codswallop. Another so called historian who never does any proper research and doesn’t have a clue.

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  4. […] knights, he abducted the widowed Margery de la Beche from her castle of Beaumys, near Reading. Lionel, Duke of Clarence, a child and then Keeper of England, was staying there at the time with other royal children. […]

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  5. […] after Richard’s death was that of the Mortimer Earls of March, who were descended from Lionel of Clarence, the second eldest son of Edward III. Bolingbroke was descended from John of Gaunt, the third […]

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  6. […] Lavenham, we were off to Clare, a historic little town with strong connections to the York family. The castle has vanished save […]

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  7. […] a curious piece of carved and painted wood. “….Brightening up the front of the Swan Inn in Clare in Suffolk is this colourful piece of carved wood. Its shape suggests that it was once the sill of […]

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  8. […] to the left in the line of Edward III’s sons, indicating that York’s claim went back to Lionel of Clarence, Edward III’s second son. There’s no mention that the Lancastrian claim also went back to […]

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  9. […] of Ireland and pass through Diarmaid MacMurchada and the Clares to Elizabeth de Burgh, who married Lionel of Antwerp. This leaves slide 6 to show Llewellyn Fawr as an ancestor of the Mortimers via Gwladys Dhu, leading […]

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  10. […] March. He’s to be seen top left, holding his arms. The Mortimers were, of course, descended from Lionel of Clarence, a more senior son of Edward III than John of Gaunt, from whom the Lancastrian side claimed […]

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  11. […] and livery by the English settlers must predate the Statute of Kilkenny – otherwise why would Duke Lionel have attempted to stamp it out? Outside the Pale, the Geraldines seem to have been relying on the […]

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  12. […] Harry thinks he’s always been a mere second best?  He should try having the Black Prince, Lionel of Clarence, John of Gaunt and Edmund of Langley ahead of him in the pecking order. Harry has had it easy in […]

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  13. […] simply because he was Duke of York. Oh no, he also did it because Anne’s descent was through Lionel, Duke of Clarence, the second eldest son of Edward III. Richard, 3rd Duke of York therefore had a double claim, […]

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  14. […] On 29 November 1338, while Edward III was travelling in Germany, his fifth child by Philippa, Lionel of Antwerp, was born. Edward had returned in time to spend several weeks with his wife at Christmas that year. […]

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