Do you know that there are people out there who are absolutely convinced that Edward IV did not marry Eleanor Talbot? I don’t mean that they doubt the marriage, but that they know it didn’t happen. I can only think they were alive in the 15th Century and in constant attendance on Edward as this is the only way one could be certain of the facts. I really don’t know what more they need to change their minds, given that the marriage was er – secret, and that an actual Act of Parliament stated that it took place. There are a distinct shortage of marriage certificates or wedding DVDs for the period in question, so I don’t know what sort of proof they would find convincing. It would be nice if just once in a while they would admit the possibility that something might not have happened as they have decided it did.

Hastings, who practically lived in Edward’s pocket, was not immediately aware of his marriage to Elizabeth, as shown by the fact that he was giving her grief in some land dispute at the approximate time of her marriage to the king. That was how close Edward could keep a secret if he wanted to. But people in 2014 think they know that Edward couldn’t possibly have married Eleanor Talbot.

It’s apparently easier to believe was all made up by wicked Richard, a man so hard that he sprang his long-planned seizure of the throne by riding south with a massive 300 men, clearly a force easily capable of tackling the meagre Woodville escort of 2000 effete Marchers. Richard, the hardest man ever to usurp a throne, then waited for weeks before sending for reinforcements. Of course, it was all a carefully planned ploy. Presumably the northern thugs had secretly been hiding in wardrobes in Plaistow all along, just ready to spring out when required.

And then Richard had Hastings killed for no reason at all, just to show how hard he was. Of course he had a complete card index of all the English noblewomen who were unattached at the relevant time, just in case he had to invent a marriage for his brother. And Lady Eleanor’s brother and sister (still very much alive in 1483 and long afterwards) were so scared of Richard that they didn’t dare to denounce the lie even after he was dead. In fact Duchess Elizabeth (a woman apparently forced to attend Richard’s coronation at knifepoint) was so scared of his ghost that she ran off and hid in the Minories instead of telling Henry VII the truth, while Sir Humphrey Talbot was careful to go off and die abroad just in case someone asked him about Eleanor. The thought that Henry might reward them for telling the truth, or that they had some sort of duty to repair the damage to their beloved sister’s honour never seems to have crossed their minds.


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31 responses to “Oh, for a wedding video!”

  1. The people who are determined to vilify Richard could be SHOWN a wedding DVD and they still wouldn’t admit the truth. For those who believe, no proof is necessary, for those who don’t believe, no proof is possible.

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  2. …not to mention the terribly wronged Elizabeth Woodville never tried to defend either herself or her children when the matter of Edward IV’s bigamy came up. Never mind she was in sanctuary at Westminster Abbey, only a few feet away from both the council and Parliament when they were meeting and surrounded by ecclesiastical law experts who would have been glad to draft any defense she might put forth. She didn’t bother telling Henry Tudor that the charge was false, either, or he wouldn’t have had to reverse Titilus Regius unread, order all copies burned, and behave as if the act never existed in the first place. Things that make you go hmm….

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  3. Such a shame they mislaid the medieval ‘OK’ magazine exclusive special.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. A card index? I suppose the wi-fi reception wasn’t great in that era.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. […] spare time. The problem with secret marriages (and this is why the Church deplored them) was that by their very nature there was no certain proof. There might or might not be witnesses, but if there were they would […]

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  6. […] IV. It was Stillington who is purported to have reported Edward IV’s earlier marriage to Eleanor Talbot (the ‘pre-contract’). Shirwood owed his bishopric to Richard’s preferment. He was […]

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  7. […] of secret marriage, even though some people maintain that nobody ever married in secret despite this case, that spawned two whole books, this one and this just decades ago, let alone Edward IV and […]

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  8. […] It was the only way he’d have his wicked way. But when he consummated this promise, he made it a marriage in fact. Edward must have thought he had this inconvenience covered. His vows with Eleanor were exchanged […]

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  9. […] except Louis XIV, King Fahd of Saudi Arabia, John Lennon, the Earl of Kent and Edward IV […]

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  10. […] are looking dark for those in denial about Edward IV and Lady Eleanor Talbot […]

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  11. Glenis Brindley Avatar
    Glenis Brindley

    The mind boggles!!!

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  12. […] and invalid. He knew the matter was true, he said, because he was the one who had officiated at the marriage of Edward and […]

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  13. […] we go on we see Lady Eleanor Butler nee Talbot – a lady of the nobility and daughter to the great John Talbot lst Earl of Shrewsbury a, […]

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  14. […] was a Talbot, authentically descended from John “Old Talbot”, Earl of Shrewsbury and posthumous father-in-law to Edward […]

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  15. […] of course the Tudors dismissed the fact that Eleanor Talbot (Butler) was Edward IV’s first wife. Well, only wife, as it happens, because she was still alive when he “married” […]

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  16. […] had twelve to fifteen children by various mistresses, including Elizabeth Wydville, but none by Lady Eleanor Talbot, his only legal wife, whose probable remains (CF2 in Norwich) show no signs of pregnancy – […]

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  17. […] Penn uses.If Edward IV had kept sensible control of the contents of his codpiece, instead of marrying bigamously and in secret, Richard would have been content to be Lord Protector and to oversee his nephew’s minority. […]

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  18. […] for later, after the death of Thomas, it would appear that she either persuaded her second, and secret husband,  the young Edward IV to act generously towards her former father in law, or he did so to make his […]

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  19. […] for later, after the death of Thomas, it would appear that she either persuaded her second, and secret husband,  the young Edward IV to act generously towards her former father in law, or he did so to make his […]

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  20. […] that her marriage to Edward was a bigamous one –  he already having a wife – namely Eleanor Butler nee Talbot – at the time of his ‘marriage’ to her,  had ‘concluded that her offspring by the […]

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  21. […] that her marriage to Edward was a bigamous one –  he already having a wife – namely Eleanor Butler nee Talbot – at the time of his ‘marriage’ to her,  had ‘concluded that her offspring by the […]

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  22. […] One of the main reasons we now have an amazing King in the list of British monarchs is without doubt the precontract between Lady Eleanor Talbot and King Edward IV. […]

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  23. […] a ruler over the devout knuckles. Nor did the family of Lady Eleanor Talbot, who seems to have been Edward’s first and very legal wife. How selfish of her not to have turned up her toes before her spouse moved on to Elizabeth. Thus […]

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  24. […] here is Matthew Lewis’ contribution to History Hit about Simon de Montfort, the rebel who secretly married Henry’s sister before capturing him and Prince Edward, then being killed in battle at […]

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  25. […] In Cairo, they will still maintain that Edward IV married in secret in 1464, but not in 1461. […]

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  26. […] course you wouldn’t! Especially when that brother had deliberately concealed the truth. The bigamy was no forgotten little indiscretion, it was an intentionally fake marriage because Edward wanted […]

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  27. […] way. Richard certainly intended to have his nephew crowned, and was arranging the coronation, until this business with Lady Eleanor Talbot came to light. Once that happened, Richard himself was the rightful heir. And he had a son […]

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  28. […] Recently the rains washed off some soil in a muddy Shropshire field, and yet another metal detectorist had a lucky find–a hawking ring from the Elizabethan period. The most intriguing thing to me was the very bold lettering spelling the name JOHN TALBOT AT GRAFTON across the band of the tiny ring. As it was from the Shropshire area and the Talbots were Earls of Shrewsbury, I was interested as to whom it is thought it belonged to and if there was any connection, as seemed likely, to the family of Eleanor Talbot, Edward IV’s Secret Queen. […]

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  29. […] most obvious case, the legislation in Parliament known as Titulus Regius states quite clearly that Edward and Eleanor were married. Of course, the Lords Spiritual and Temporal and the Commons were not all present in the chapel, […]

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  30. […] and later the favourite of Queen Anne, married John Churchill in secret (which nobody else ever did, of course) and they became the first Duke and Duchess of Marlborough. As you can see from her […]

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  31. […] was to make it generally known to family, friends, employers and neighbours etc.,  with perhaps a wedding feast to […]

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