The New Murrey and Blue blog

Lady Eleanor Talbot

The Queen of England the Tudors chose to overlook….

Jan 13, 2020

battles, law, religion, sources

“Princes”, Battle of Bosworth, bigamy, Edward IV, Elizabeth of York, Henry VII, illegitimacy, Lady Eleanor Talbot, Stanleys, Three Estates, Titulus Regius, Wydevilles

Yes, of course the Tudors dismissed the fact that Eleanor Talbot (Butler) was Edward IV’s first wife. Well, only wife, as it happens, because she was still alive when he “married” Elizabeth Woodville, whom he never did wed legally. In law, she was little more than a glorified mistress, and as a consequence, all the…
Eleanor: A reminder of the evidence

Dec 27, 2019

law, religion, sources

1486 year book, Anglican dioceses, Annette Carson, bigamy, Calais, Captain of Calais, Catherine of Aragon, Charles V, Crowland Chronicle, David Johnson, denialists, Earls of Desmond, Edward IV, Elizabeth Wydeville, Eustace Chapuys, France, George Duke of Clarence, Henry VIII, Holy Roman Empire, John Ashdown-Hill, John Blount Lord Mountjoy, Lady Eleanor Talbot, Lady Lucy, letters, Louis XI, Philippa Langley, Phillippe de Commynes, pre-contract, Ralph Butler Baron Sudeley, Revealing Richard III, Ricardian Bulletin, Richard III, Robert Stillington, Sandra Pendlington, Thomas More, Three Estates, Titulus Regius, Wendy Johnson, William Catesby

I know some people in Cairo are a little slow on the uptake, but there are several independent sources, as shown by the Revealing Richard III blog. In a recent series of articles in the Ricardian Bulletin, the team cite: Titulus Regius, as composed from the petition to the Three Estates on 26 June 1483;…
Matthew Lewis on YouTube: 2) Mancini

Dec 1, 2019

anniversaries, religion, sources

“I know nothing”, “Princes”, Armstrong, Arthur “Tudor”, Beaugency, bigamy, Charles VIII, Crowland Chronicle, Domenico Mancini, Dr. John Argentine, Duke of Orleans, Edward IV, evidence, executions, feuds, France, George Duke of Clarence, gossip, Hastings, Henry VII, illegitimacy, Italian merchants, Italy, Lady Eleanor Talbot, language, Lord High Admiral, Lord High Constable, Lord Protector of the Realm, Louis XI, minority kings, Parliament, plots, pre-contract, propaganda, Robert Stillington, sickness, Stony Stratford, translation, Wydevilles

Here is the second in my series of Top 10’s. This one is focussing on Dominic Mancini’s account of the events of 1483. It’s a hugely problematical source, both in terms of Mancini himself, who spoke no English, had no grasp of English politics and very limited sources, and in terms of the current translation…
Devon Roses

Nov 27, 2019

anniversaries, battles, Music Reviews

Act of Accord, Cecily Duchess of York, Cicely Plantagenet, Countess of Warwick, Devon and Cornwall Group Richard III Society, Edward V, Elizabeth Lambert, Elizabeth of York, Elizabeth Woodville, France, Henry VI, Lady Eleanor Talbot, Margaret of Anjou, Margaret of Burgundy, Palace of Westminster, reburial, Richard III, Sandra heath wilson, The Legendary Ten Seconds, Wakefield, William Duke of Suffolk

Devon Roses 2019 catalogue number R16 To commemorate the 40th anniversary of the Devon & Cornwall branch of the Richard III Society Songs recorded from 2015 to 2019 at Rock Lee & Other World Studios The lady singers of the Legendary Ten Seconds: Elaine Churchward vocals Jules Jones vocals Pippa West vocals Bridgit England…
Busting yet another Cairo myth

Oct 30, 2019

anniversaries, battles, law, religion, sources

bigamy, Bishops of Bath and Wells, Brittany, denialists, Earl of Desmond, Edward Hall, Edward IV, executions, Foedera, Francis Duke of Brittany, George Duke of Clarence, health, Henry VII, Hicks, Lady Eleanor Talbot, Lord Chancellor, Lord Privy Seal, Marie Barnfield, Oliver King, Polydore Vergil, PreContract, Ralph Butler Baron Sudeley, Richard III, Robert Stillington, William Catesby

Bishop Robert Stillington was imprisoned soon after Bosworth and died in captivity in 1491, definitely by 15 May. It is generally thought that this was a punishment for providing the copious evidence that convinced the Three Estates, in June 1483, of Edward IV’s bigamy. This rendered Elizabeth of York and all her siblings legally illegitimate,…
The Pink Queen

Oct 3, 2019

anniversaries, battles, Book Reviews, genealogy, law, religion

Coronation, Edward IV, Elizabeth Wydeville, John Ashdown-Hill, John Earl of Shrewsbury, Lady Eleanor Talbot, marriage law, Richard III, Richard Woodville, St. Sexberga, Wydevilles

John Ashdown-Hill’s last book, a biography of Elizabeth Wydville, was published in July. To mark this, it is time to compare the flow of her life with that of his other subject Lady Eleanor Talbot (1). Generally, Lady Eleanor’s social status, as determined by their fathers and husbands is higher at any point, or even relative to…
1968 accuracy about Richard’s resting place….

Aug 25, 2019

anniversaries, battles, buildings, genealogy, law, religion, Science

bigamy, Bosworth, Discovering London, Edward IV, Elizabeth Wydeville, Henry VII, John of Gaunt, Kenneth Derwent, Lady Eleanor Talbot, Leicester Greyfriars, PreContract, Richard III, Three Estates

Here is an extract that I found interesting. It’s from a 1968 booklet titled Discovering London 3: Medieval London, by Kenneth Derwent, published by Macdonald, and while it doesn’t condemn Richard, a previous paragraph states that the disappearance of Edward V and his brother “were disposed of” and that “the circumstantial evidence points most strongly…
Henry VI’s Bed-Chamber Tutor?

Jul 8, 2019

Book Reviews, genealogy, humour

Catherine de Valois, Charles V, Edmund Duke of Somerset, Edward of Lancaster, Henry VI, Humphrey Duke of Buckingham, insanity, intercourse, Lady Eleanor Talbot, Lauren Johnson, Margaret d’Anjou, Ralph Butler Baron Sudeley, Sudeley Castle, William Duke of Suffolk

There’s a new book on Henry VI and Margaret of Anjou coming out, in which historian Lauren Johnson surmises that the over-pious Henry VI may have had a few problems in the bedroom department and hence had attendants who would ‘guide’ him in the ways of love. Henry was a notably prudish man who once…
Secret Marriages – Edward IV & his Two Wives, the Novel

Jun 30, 2019

anniversaries, battles, buildings, genealogy, heraldry, law, religion

Anne Beauchamp, Anne Mowbray, Anne Neville, Barnet, bigamy, Burton Dassett, Carmelite Priory, Christ’s College, coronations, Edward IV, Elizabeth Wydeville, fiction, Henry VII, Isabel Neville, Janet Reedman, John Crowne, John Earl of Shrewsbury, Lady Eleanor Talbot, Lady Elizabeth Talbot, Norwich, Poor Clare’s convent, Richard of Warwick, royal marriages, St. Erasmus Chapel, Talbot hound, Westminster Abbey, Whitefriars Monastery

Over the years there has been lots of fiction written about Edward IV, Elizabeth Woodville and of course Richard III. However, there is one one figure in their story who often gets a mention, but is rarely portrayed as a living person, with the events long after her death in 1468 taking the forefront instead. …
The Trial That Should Have Happened in 1483

Jun 26, 2019

anniversaries, law, religion, sources

archbishops, Beaumaris Castle, bigamy, canon law, Charles Donohue, Commines, consistory court, Crowland Chronicle, documents, Domenico Mancini, Edward IV, Edward of Warwick, Edward V, Eleanor Cobham, Elizabeth Wydeville, George Duke of Clarence, Henry of Buckingham, Henry VI, Humphrey of Gloucester, illegitimacy, inheritance, John Fortescue, King’s Bench, Lady Eleanor Talbot, Leeds Castle, Margery Paston, Papal Curia, Parliament, Pope, PreContract, procedure, Protectorate, R.H. Helmholz, Richard Calle, Richard III, Richard of Shrewsbury, Robert Stillington, secular law, Sir William Shareshull, sorcery, St Stephens Chapel, Statute of Merton, Statute of Praeminure, The Court of Arches, Three Estates, Titulus Regius, treason, Westminster Abbey, Westminster Hall, William Durantis, witnesses

Originally posted on RICARDIAN LOONS: Putting aside the mystery of what ultimately happened to Edward IV’s two sons, one enduring difficulty for a student of history is whether Richard III used the proper legal procedure in having them declared illegitimate because of their father’s precontracted marriage to Eleanor Talbot. The most (and only) significant defect…