The New Murrey and Blue blog

Three of Richard’s ships taken over by Henry….?

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Yet again, while searching for one thing I came upon another. A book called The Hamble River by H.W. Trinder, from which the above map is taken, seemed likely to contain the information I was seeking, i.e. Southampton and its immediate environs in the 14th century. Then, I  read the following:-

“….Receyved [probably to lay up during winter] the king’s ship cald the Grace Dieu the Xth day of October the first year (1485) of the most noble reigne of the said soveraine lord the King in a dokke at Hamill on the Hoke in the countie of Southampton with the staffe takle and aparill hereafter ensuying.’ [Here follows a long list of sails, cordage, armour, arms and stores]. The royal ship Marie of the Toure on the Hoke, on 11th October, 1485, and the king’s ship, the Governor, with its sails, cannon, arms and stores, were on the 10th October, 1485, also received at Hamill….”

The above paragraph has been lifted entirely, and my only interference is to italicise the ships’ names. October 1485 is barely two months after Bosworth, and therefore counts as being in the reign of Henry VII, but I have to believe that the vessels in question dated from the reigns of Edward IV and Richard III? Henry didn’t suddenly have a kingly fleet of his own, he merely took over the royal vessels that had been in Richard’s hands?

Does anyone know anything about the Grace Dieu, Marie of the Toure and Governor? I know Grace Dieu is a reasonably common name for medieval vessels, but what of the other two?

from Old OS Map

PPS: I do know Old Christmas Day didn’t fall in October! 😄  

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  1. nebetper Avatar
    nebetper

    In 1473 the Grace Dieu once more occurs among the names of men-of-war. Marcus Symonson of Causere was paid £62, 8s 2d for pitch, tar, masts, and other necessaries supplied by him for the ‘new making of our shippe called the Grace Dieu.’ Unless she was one of the vessels previously bought rebuilt and renamed, she must have been a new ship but there are no other particulars concerning her. In 1472 there is a grant of an annuity of £20 a year to this Mark Symonson, owner of the Antony of Causere, ‘for the good services he had done and would do’; this large reward, equal to at least £200 a year now, points to the possibility of his having been captain and owner of the vessel which brought Edward over to Ravenspurn in 1471. Another Spanish ship, the Gary con was purchased in 1478 for £100 and in the same year William Combresale, who afterwards succeeded Rogers as clerk of the ships, is referred to as master of the king’s ship Trinity, another new name. Carycon or Carraquon was simply old French for a large carrack, and the ship, shortly afterwards, became the Mary of the Tower. With the Carycon and the Trinity there is found, ‘the king’s ship called the Fawcon’ and in 1483 Rogers was ordered ‘to repaire and make of the newe our shippe the Mary Ashe’ possibly the older Mary of Grace. The last purchase is at the close of the reign in January 1483, when 100 marks was paid to Roger Kelsale, collector of customs at Southampton for his share in a bark of Southampton lately bought.

    A HISTORY OF THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE ROYAL NAVY AND OF MERCHANT SHIPPING IN RELATION TO THE NAVY, FROM MDIX TO MDCLX, WITH AN INTRODUCTION TREATING OF THE PRECEDING PERIOD, by Michael Oppenheim, 1896

    This is from the introduction.

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