John Ashdown-Hill’s Eleanor, the Secret Queen was first published in 2009, detailing Lady Eleanor Talbot’s family and early life, the circumstances in which she married Edward IV, her similarities to his mistress Elizabeth Woodville (they were dark haired, older and widows of Lancastrian-inclined men), canon law and how it affected Edward’s relationships and children together with the Clarence attainder, Stillington’s translation to Bath and Wells in 1461, his imprisonment and Titulus Regius 1484. Then it described the attempted cover-up of Titulus Regius (before a copy emerged through Buck), Catesby’s execution, More’s attempt to write another lady into the story, Chapuys’ knowledge of the case and the emergence of remains that may be Lady Eleanor in Norwich, judged by her age, status and the dental evidence. It proved the marriage almost completely to the satisfaction of most open minds.Eleanor

Seven years later, it has been reissued in paperback with even more evidence. We can now know, with confidence, exactly where and when Edward married Lady Eleanor. Our attention is additionally drawn to the circumstances of her death and the arrest of two of her sister’s servants a few weeks later, such that there are reports of their executions, whilst the discovery of Richard III’s skeleton leads to further deductions about the dental evidence in Norwich. The case for the 1461 marriage is now proven, even if her corpse cannot yet be conclusively identified.


Subscribe to my newsletter

  1. I think it is a bit exaggerated to say the precontract has been proved however I have always believed the idea that it was thought up over a period of a few days to be ridiculous. Can you imagine something like Richard speaking to stillington. “Right, bob….can you remember where you were in 1461? Who can we choose as she has to be dead and unable to deny it. Do you know anyone who fits that bill? Ah yes, Eleanor that’s right…….” The idea that this story would be completely made up over a period of days and yet nothing tripped them up is frankly silly….. ” Oh blast, she was in Clacton that weekend!!!!!”. The contortions that the traditionalists have produced trying to explain the unexplainable suppression of titulus regius by henry tudor is certainly entertaining. One being that because no-one believed it any way there was no need to draw attention to it as it was not worthy, it was beneath contempt. This is totally silly and where were all the lords announcing their retractions and stating they had been terrified into accepting the lie. Nowhere to be heard

    Liked by 2 people

  2. The sheer logistics of inventing a story like this over a few days while simultaniously running the country and dealing with all manner of business makes the mind boggle. There was no internet, no Burke’s Peerage, not even records of birth – or marriage! You couldn’t ring up someone at the other end of the country to check facts. Indeed nothing at all could be conveyed faster than the pace of a man on a swift horse.

    Mind you, we are in a world where (to some people) it seems perfectly reasonable that a stone staircase in the Tower could be taken apart and a hole dug down ten feet, all in a few hours and without anyone noticing!

    I do wonder whether some people have done (or arranged) a complex task in their lives!

    Liked by 2 people

  3. I believe there are many links to people involved in this mystery that we will never know about? We only have the bare bones of the facts to chew over, who knows how much meat has rotted away over the centuries.

    Like

  4. while I was in Norwich recently I visited the castle museum and discovered the skeleton that may be eleanor (eventually and after asking a curator!!!!!). I must say it was rather emotional because there is a chance it is her. I know only 8% but my actual opinion is that it IS her as the more modern reconstruction shows a striking likeness to the sculpture of her father on his tomb effigy.
    It is unusual to have a nose of that structure and it is a highly heritable feature and I noticed it straight away… she seems to have his arched eyebrows

    Like

  5. […] The other ‘attendant’ of note happens to be Ralph Botiller–that would be Eleanor Talbot‘s father-in-law, Lord Sudeley–although no one has ever accused him of having an affair […]

    Like

  6. […] in July. To mark this, it is time to compare the flow of her life with that of his other subject Lady Eleanor Talbot (1). Generally, Lady Eleanor’s social status, as determined by their fathers and husbands is […]

    Like

  7. […] Eustace de Chapuys‘ (below left) 1533-4 letters to Charles V, showing that Henry VIII had a lesser dynastic claim to the English throne than Catherine of Aragon, his patron’s aunt; […]

    Like

  8. […] Soar, through research initiated by John Ashdown-Hill and others, Ashdown-Hill’s work on the pre-contract, restoring Lady Eleanor to her rightful place in history as Edward IV’s legal wife. The […]

    Like

  9. […] is one of the relative few biographies I have purchased of a royal woman and feels very much like another one in particular. The first chapter, just like Ashdown-Hill’s best tome, explores the subject’s family […]

    Like

  10. […] John Ashdown-Hill’s iconic Eleanor was published eleven years ago, we have seen some desperate attempts to contradict his proven […]

    Like

  11. […] near Whitchurch in Staffordshire. Their manor house was on the shore of the mere, and was where Lady Eleanor may have been born. I once had reason to research Blakemere, but my prying did not turn up the […]

    Like

  12. […] but I can’t see that Dan mentions Edward IV‘s probable ‘secret marriage’ to Eleanor Talbot in any of his Twitter or other postings on history. (He did once post a very entertaining picture […]

    Like

  13. […] question – Joan of Acre (twice) and Elizabeth of Rhuddlan – are among the ancestors of Lady Eleanor Talbot, Lucy Walter, “Mrs. Fitzherbert” (Maria Smythe) and Laura Culme-Seymour, as shown in […]

    Like

  14. […] not far off the mark in regards to the real Buckingham’s ambitions. It was nice to hear Eleanor Talbot‘s name mentioned when the pre-contract was brought up, too–although the characters did […]

    Like

  15. […] Holy Father,I have sinned by committing bigamy. I married Lady Eleanor Talbot, an older, Lancastrian widow, in secret during June 1461. At some stage we separated and she died […]

    Like

  16. […] to help pacify the district. As Norfolk was no more than 18 in 1462 and his wife Elizabeth Talbot (Eleanor‘s sister) was just a few months older, this was quite a responsibility. No doubt they had […]

    Like

  17. […] errors include referring to Edward IV’s relationship to Lady Eleanor Talbot as an ‘engagement’. A pre-contract is not an ‘engagement.’ Corvi also […]

    Like

  18. […] Dublin, who was the brother of John Talbot, 1st Earl of Shrewsbury; hence Richard was the uncle of Lady Eleanor Talbot, probably the secret wife of Edward IV. The feud eventually subsides and the hatchet was buried […]

    Like

Leave a comment